the gentlemen
who organized our meeting.
My friends at home believe,
and I share their point of view,
that the speediest capitulation
of all German armies
and the liquidation of all the SS units
will save millions of lives.
My friends would like to know
with what representatives of the Allies
we should establish contact.
You mean the simultaneous
capitulation of all Reich's armies
in the East, in the West,
in the North and in the South?
Would you like to suggest
any other way?
Our conversation is taking
a very strange course.
Those interested in negotiating are...
the Germans, not us.
Yes.
Therefore we should set the conditions,
isn't that so?
To be able
to talk to your friends,
we must know,
as the ancients taught us,
who,
when, how many and with whose help.
Otherwise, we might consider you
a double agent of the Gestapo.
Or a man with
no authority at all.
Or an object that
is used for misinformation.
I'm not a politician.
Perhaps you're right.
But I want you
to believe in my sincerity.
I don't know everybody who is behind
the group that sent me here,
but the man representing
that group is quite influential.
Are we playing cat and mouse?
In politics, everything
must be stipulated from the start.
- Everybody knows it.
- I don't know anything.
Seriously, I don't know anything.
In politics, everything must be
stipulated from the start.
I would advise you
to tell your friends
that we won't talk to them unless
we know whom they represent,
what their program is,
particularly their ideological platform
and the plans they want
to carry out in Germany
with our help.
The ideological platform is clear,
it's based on anti-Nazism.
Yes, that's the first stage of ideology.
But how do your friends
see the future of Germany?
What will it be oriented to?
What slogans will you
offer to the German people?
If you can't answer
for your friends,
perhaps you will share with me
your own point of view?
My point of view
would be subjective.
In any case, if you fear
it'll be a Communist orientation,
you're mistaken.
Equally monstrous to me
seems the idea
of preserving, even if
in a modified form,
any system of
the suppression of the German people
that is existing today.
All right, a counter question, then.
Who can keep
the German people
within the limits of order
if Hitler leaves?
The Church people, those who are
now in concentration camps,
or the really existing
commanders of police units,
who decided to break off with Hitlerism?
The police force in Germany
obeys the SS Reichsfuhrer Himmler.
I heard about it.
So we're talking about
the preservation of the SS,
which, as you believe,
is in power
to keep people away from anarchy,
within the limits of order?
And who's coming forward with such
proposal?
I think this question hasn't been
discussed by anyone yet.
The pastor got frightened.
He understood he blabbed out.
That shrewd Italian will jump at it
and get out of him everything
he knows about the negotiations
between the Americans and the SS.
The pastor knew he couldn't lie -
his face would have betrayed him.
And the Italian, one of
the officials on Dulles's staff,
did a lot of thinking
on his way back,
before getting down to writing
a report about the conversation.
"Either he's a complete zero,"
mused the Italian, -
"who is nobody
in Germany,
or he's an astute intelligence agent.
He didn't know how to bargain,
and yet he told me nothing.
It may even be that he understands
better what we want
than I understand what they can give.
Though his last words
show
that they know something
about our negotiations with Wolf."
I've represented here the Church and
His Holiness for less than 2 months,
but I can say that
I've already fully acclimatized.
So if you need my assistance...
- You got comfortable accommodations?
- Thank you, I'm fine so far.
I'm happy to see you
safe here, Pastor.
And I'm glad you never rest